Creating a Legacy of Representation: The Journey of Samantha Ong and Joey Dolls

Hello everybody and welcome to In the Dawn World, a show spotlighting the passion and the people of the Dawn community With your host, georgia Taylor, former vice president and co-founder of Big Beautiful Dolls. Join her as she talks to fascinating Dawn artists, customizers, avid collectors, redesigners, authors and all the people in between, as they share their journeys, give us glimpses into their processes and will propel their passion and drive to help keep the Dawn world moving and shaking. Welcome to the show, hello everybody, and welcome to In the Dawn World. I'm your host, georgia Taylor, and, as always, I'm so excited that you joined me today and so excited to bring some amazing new Dawn creators to our listeners, and today is no exception. Today we have Samantha Ong. She is the founder and CEO of Joey Dolls and I want to welcome her to In the Dawn World.

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Thank you so much, Samantha, for joining me. I'm so excited to be able to have you share what it is that you do talk about your dolls, because they are just precious. I absolutely love them. They're just the cutest thing, and so would you just share with our audience where you're from and how you decided to come up with this inspirational line of dolls? I think it's beautiful.

Yes thank you. So we're based in Toronto and it really all began. I'm actually a wedding photographer, so it was like during the pandemic where I was really stripped of the ability to work. I had so many weddings canceled so I was stuck at home. I thought it was actually turned out to be a blessing, because when you have a small business, you don't really think to take maternity leave for yourself, and so I just went straight in. After having her giving birth to her, I went straight into working weddings, which was really insane. So this pandemic forced me to really reprioritize my life and then spend some time with her, and so as I was doing that, I was watching news of the pandemic and seeing anti-Asian hate really increasing significantly. I remember feeling sort of ashamed of my own, how I look, potentially being scared about what people might think of me. I was seeing a lot of hate speech, especially surrounding spreading the virus, where it came from, and all of that, and also a lot of what was talked about was referring to Asians as one group, and when you have a child, I really feel that you see the world through their eyes, but also you reflect upon your own childhood. And so when I was having all these thoughts, I thought, oh gosh, I don't want her to feel ashamed of being Asian or how she looks. Just like I did when I was younger, I remember telling my dad speak English, or I was really envious of my classmates who were blonde and blue-eyed. Those were the dolls that I played with, and I really do think that had such an impact on how I viewed myself in society that I was always the other. I was never supposed to be the main character or someone that would be something in society. I remember thinking vividly to myself I could never be a princess, I could never be in Hollywood, I could never be someone of significance and so track along just being the other person. I understand, yeah, cool. So also, of course, we were stuck in the pandemic, we were just all alone. So it was really myself and my daughter and my husband had to work the front lines and we were feeling very lonely. So that's when I really thought, ok, let's look for some dolls that she could feel comforted by, and I really wanted to look for dolls that she could see herself in. And so, as I was looking, I couldn't believe how very little there was out there. Even to this day. We talk about diversity, we talk about representation, and there's just really not much out there. Of course there are a few, but what I tend to see that was out there. There would be a whole range of dolls and then there'll be that one token Asian doll and it tended to have stereotypical features and then fair skin, black hair, and then somehow it was called Asian and then even sometimes they weren't even very Asian looking, they still looked very white. So I was really disappointed in what I could see. I personally couldn't connect with them. I couldn't feel proud to give that to my daughter, and so it was around the time when she was one years old it was her birthday we normally wanted to put her in her traditional Asian outfit. So actually I'm Chinese, malaysian and my husband's Korean. So, although we're Asian, but we became most specific yeah, chinese, korean, malaysian. So we celebrate our culture through our outfits and through our food and all of this. But then I was like we don't do that through dolls. And so as I was looking and looking and I felt so frustrated and my husband was just like, well, if you can't find anyone, you make one. I was like, oh, easy for you to say Easy to say to them, right. Exactly because I was like I don't have any experience. I don't have any toy experience, I don't have any fashion experience or sewing experience at all, and so there was so much to learn. But I just really came down to OK, if I want to do this for my own daughter which was my primary goal at the time how many other children can I help through these dolls? And so I think that really propelled me in redefining my mission with creating the dolls, taking this ginormous hill of learning and workload. People think it's much so fun and easy to make these dolls, but it was a lot, a lot, a lot of work, and especially because I tried to spend my time with my daughter during the day, and I just looked on these at night so there were so many late nights and stuff.

She was very young, then right when you started, right. So let me share some of the challenges that you face in creating not just even a doll, but creating a line of Asian-inspired dolls.

It was not knowing how to sew, and so, also, I wanted to do it locally at first, and so I was trying to find a doll designer, initially locally and then me not being able to work for basically two years during the pandemic. I had a very small investment, like I didn't want to put so much of my own funds into it, so I was trying to do things very. What you're conscious right, exactly Because I didn't have all this money to spend, and so I struggled with that. Initially, like the cost just went up really high. Also, like finding the right materials. I thought it would be a lot easier to find various skin tones that I could pick from, like various shades of beige and, you know, browns and all these like. But I couldn't believe how hard it was. And that's when I was like, okay, I had to take this overseas because there had more variety and then, if I needed to, I could custom Right. Of course, that still required like a large investment to do custom fabrics and all of that, but it was just so much more I had access to. More obviously Right, and definitely when it came to the cultural aspect, like, I remember being so worried about getting things right because I don't want to offend anyone, I don't want to pretend that I know what it is like to be Vietnamese or like what's important for them. So there was a lot of design changes. So, even though it took me it's been three years to the like until like when it's November, three years has like accepted this idea. So I'm feeling a little sad at that Because of all the reiterations I was able to like redefine what we were about and what was important for the doll to have, whereas if I pushed out the doll that I had three years ago, like my initial idea, I don't think I would have been very proud of it and I don't think people would have connected with it. Yeah, so I'm actually really glad that we went through those changes. Like wait, I spent a lot of time asking people in the community to give feedback. I'm like reaching out and the community has been really, really, really beautiful. Yeah, and that's what I think I want it to be really about that these dolls aren't just me. Making these dolls Like it's been like a real collaborative effort and it's for the community that everyone feels a part of this journey as well, because they have had such an input, especially the names as well. Like I made sure that that was given a lot of importance. Initially I was like I'm just going to pick the names, like how hard can it be? And then I was like wait, like the names are going to have so much meaning and significance for every culture, and so that's when I like really put it out there for people to give feedback on and help choose the name.

Yeah, I think I think, wow, do you know, just listen into the way that you you did the process. I just really want to just congratulate you on that because I think a lot of people, like you said, would not necessarily think about you know specific Asian cultures and ask for their input. They would just take it upon themselves to think, oh, I know this. So I think I know this and this is what I'm going to represent. So kudos to you for doing that. I think that that made it so much more culturally, I think, inspired by doing that. Now, how many, how many cultures do your dolls represent and what are their names? I'm so glad that you said that, that you went to the culture and said, hey, what about this name? Does this work? Because it may. It's a different meaning and it represents something to them. You know that's really important, so that's really beautiful that you did that.

Thank you. Yeah, so we have six cultures and ethnicities, and so we have Chinese, vietnamese, filipino, korean, indian and Indian. Oh sorry, I want to try it in Japanese and so, yeah, so I have six and their names. So we have the Chinese doll is May, and then we have Filipino, her name is Malaya, and then we have the Vietnamese doll, which is Hua, and then the Indian doll is Kamala, and then the Korean doll is Danbi, and then Japanese doll is Aiko. Yeah, they all have meanings and so I want it was such a actually just in the name itself. It was such a process Because, for example, the Indian doll I didn't realize, like how many languages there are in India the interpretation of the names could mean different things. But also a lot of the names were very religious focused. So, because I want these dolls to be relatable for children, I didn't want them to be just relatable to one like one religious background. So that's where it got really tricky is that I had to make sure that a name could be relatable to different, you know, religious backgrounds and languages, and then it still meant something of significance. So it was a real process, like researching each name and then even like betting them with various people and, of course, various people had different opinions, and all of that that was interesting work that you had to do. I had no idea that I would come to this in making this doll, but it means so much to people that of course I had to give that so much importance.

Yeah, that's so true. So, like, in what ways really do you believe or see the representation of toys and your dolls really contributing to helping you know racism and force during a self, you know, I guess, a sense of self worth and love with children, with you know among themselves? Like, do you believe that those things can happen because of dolls and toys?

Yeah. So upon my research, when I was looking up dolls and early development, I actually had no idea that babies as young as 10 months can recognize racial differences and that they tend to excite with or bias like with people that look like themselves or different. So, like this is so important for, like our world, world is so diverse, to not just see one type of Look or like race, to be really familiar with many. That's why I wanted so badly to do at least six dolls and I really hope that I can do more in the future Because at the very beginning people were like, just start with one doll. Like you don't have an experience, just start with one doll. And I was like really stubborn about it. I really wanted to do at least six because, like just seeing the six on its own, you can see already, like this, so much diversity within the Asian diaspora that it's so important to be able to Recognize that and have that education for people.

Because I got really saw this, like you know, during the pandemic or even you know, other times where you know we've traveled and People and just like my husband's Korean and people tend to think he's Chinese, yeah, there's a lot of assumptions and just like not enough education, I guess, and so I'm really hoping that if people, if children or even, you know, adults, I like we get, you know, a lot of people get caught up and, like you said, their own ideas of what that, what that looks like, you know, and if you see a different culture, you just you know, you want to tend to put it in one box, like that's, that's who they are, right, or if I, you know, you see a face that looks different, oh well, that's what they are and that's not. That's not the truth. I think it forces you, just like it did you, in the sense it forced you to learn that there was so many languages and in the end, it was so many different Things that came with names. You know, representation of names were so different as well. So it just isn't just because you look one way doesn't necessarily mean that that's that. There's so many facets of that. It's not just how you know.

So, yeah, right, of course, yes, exactly. That's why I really hope that these girls can just be like a starting point for a lot more Conversation and education, and I do hope that, of course, we want the dolls to be the primary of our like a brand, but we really do want to explore, like, how we can use the dolls for education, like, maybe, like even with each doll, you can scan the QR code on the hang tag and learn more about, like why we told Because the name, what's the significance about it, what is on their outfit, what other significance behind that, and I hope that we can expand on that Like we've put out like facts about each country and I hope that you know we can continue down this road to provide more Resources for parents to be like for tools Promoting diversity. So I really hope that parents, or like as adults, like that not only choose Adult that maybe is their own heritage, that also they could choose to look at the other dolls for introducing that for their children. I do hope that dolls could be Played with with children outside the Asian community, because you know we really have to. I really want it to be normalized, that that normal to play with an Asian doll or a black doll, even if you're not of that background right, right, that's so, that's so true.

I mean, I think that was one of the things that we thought about when we were doing the big, beautiful dolls is because, you know Me and my my friend, you know, plus size Women and we just felt, looking at the fashion doll world, there was nothing that represented that right. But yet, you know, 40% of women were certain size, you know, and so we wanted it to that to be the norm, like even, you know, you have all array of these beautiful fashion dolls and they should range from smaller to bigger, because this is who we are, you know, in this, in this world. This is who we are in this world. It it took many, many years, you know, that was 1999 and 2000, and that was like unheard of again. And we felt the same way when we walked into the doll I'll, there was nothing that it wasn't even $1 at a. This is who we are, you know. So I definitely understand where you're coming from in the sense of wanting it to be, wanting, you know, not just your culture but other cultures to be represented, because we are a melting pot. I mean, this is just what the world is, and so there should be dolls that represent all, all aspects, all, all abilities, all disabilities, right, all colors, all shapes and sizes, because that is who we are as people. So I Again, I'm so excited about your dolls. Let me ask you this question now Do you think that dolls would have been kind of in Created without you having an experience as being a mother?

No, I don't think I would have thought to like, look at dolls, and so I think that's a huge blessing that I have had this experience, like, like I said, when I am with her, I look at the world through her eyes. So it's like how do I want to redefine her like way of life? That was different, right, and changing that narrative, and how, in creating the dolls, how I can change the narrative for other children. And I would have never thought about that If it weren't having her, because I wouldn't like my childhood was just like in the past now. And of course, I would have thought like, okay, there needs to be more representation on TV and right, but it would have been something you thought you would have just go ahead and did right no.

Yeah, I get, I understand that. How do you, how do you represent all the cultures like through, I guess there and the heritage through their designs? How do you incorporate that into their designs?

Yeah. So I really at first, like I wanted to look up what the traditional dress for each he was, and so I started from there and then Then I started reaching out to people like what do you think? I started drafting what it could be and then and then and then I started like adding a lot of details. So this is where I think my challenge really was, because of course, you can make certain things on like a full-size outfit, but also making it like cost-effective and also really miniature, because everything is handmade that it was so difficult to Do, like, for example, that people don't realize like the Chinese knots are all handmade. So of course, when you do them on a larger scale, you know you can knock them, but then, like these pieces are so tiny like it's just impossible. But I was so stubborn like I had no have to do these like because I want them to be like really authentic. And then we went through so many methods like, okay, well, do we print them, do we embroider them? And we there was a long process of figuring out like what would look best and the functionality, making it easy for children to be able to play with and then understand like the aspects of a traditional dress and, of course, like, had to simplify some of them, but also I wanted to make them as authentic as possible. So, like, even like the Korean headpiece, like initially we had it, it's just like a little flower and I was like, oh no, can we make it like a true headpiece? But also without a lot of like, we have to simplify it because we didn't want all these pearls, because, right, it would not make for children, right. And then, like the, the Japanese headpiece usually is quite expensive to make that headpiece just for a regular.

You know it's a wear.

Yeah, so I'm, you know, making one. That's pretty much the same, but it's usually you like glue, so you then normally would glue it on, and then that's a traditional way to do it. But we couldn't just glue it on because then it wouldn't be safe for children, right, right. And then I put it had to look at okay, if we sew it, will it still look the same, will it still be cost-effective, all these things. But this is me where I was just like no, I want to do it this way, but I had to like have some leeway with it, yeah.

I understand that, because you have to make sure that it's safe, first of all, for children to play with, so you know you can't have stuff that's that they could pick off they could take off easily, you know and then creating something, like you said, a flower that's so delicate, and making it so small, making it small enough, but also making it represent what it's supposed to represent as well. How many iterations did you have for each doll? So, when you created a design like, how many iterations did you have of that? One design for each doll?

I can't even tell you, I don't even think I've. I tried to keep track of like okay, this is the next version, next one. But because there were so many dolls as well like, so we were doing them all like at the same time. And then, yeah, like I didn't just do okay, chinese doll, and like let's complete that one. And so actually one of the challenges was finding the right manufacturer overseas to be able to put with me, because a lot of the time people would say, oh, I'd be willing to help you do it, and, but then we'd hit like a roadblock and then like okay, we need to find someone else. And then I would go to the next manufacturer and like, okay, I didn't want to keep going with this whole like process, like starting all over again, and that's what like also took a lot of the time. Is that trying to find that right person?

And you can kind of think about it like dating, that you know when you find someone, but it's not quite right, but you're like let's just keep going because, like I've already invested on this time and you were doing that during COVID yes, oh my gosh, like wow, that must have been a huge challenge.

Yeah, I was, and then sometimes I just wish I could just glide over there and just go. I want it exactly like this. And so there was a lot of like language barrier but also just like time delay, with like having to ship it over and shipping was taking a long time and all of this. So once we did find like the manufacturer that was able to really see our vision through, and then I was like, okay, now we got to get them out as quick as we can. But also I already kind of 98% had the like, the vision of like each doll by that, but it still took a long time to get to that point. Yeah, so at that point it was already I think it was two years into it, and so I was developing a following online and a lot of people were just like, how can we get the doll like right away? They just wanted it so badly. But I was just telling people please be patient, because I can want it to be perfect and I wanted it to be right.

So right, yeah, I get that. I totally get that. So how much are you talking about? You had already developed a community. So how did that work for you? You know, when you talk, you talk about creating designs, having an idea, creating designs, but now you have to market that. Now you have to get it out to the right people. Now you have to get enough people to see it. So how did that process start for you?

Yeah, so initially it was just social media, so I was just posting and of course, you start off with zero followers and I'm like, is anyone even going to be interested in it? And that's when I really was looking at doing things as cheap as possible because I didn't know if anyone would buy them. And then, as I was like just doing like illustrations, like concepts, people were interested, but they weren't like so interested because they were still confused about like how would they actually really look? And then when I first put out like the one of the very first prototypes, which looks nowhere to what it looks now, people were like wow, like oh, my goodness, that's what they look like. They're so cute. This like representative, I want them. And so it just really snowballed from there. And also, when I was just like looking on, like even like say, facebook groups, like looking at, like asking questions, like for people to have input on, actually developed an interest and then would share, I would share, okay.

Okay. So because you reach out to the community to ask for their input, you kind of probably got a lot more people interested and people see what you were doing. So that kind of helped, I think, a lot.

And I think it helps people feel, yeah, part of that process, but also like the reason why I was doing everything instead, because a lot of the time people think, especially on my social media, I don't I really do need to put my face out there more, but people think I'm just like this corporation or this company has like this big budget behind it or like all these different options and all these things, but I am really only one person being able to do this, and so I hope that you know, if I start with the six dolls, I can do more in the future. But initially, yeah, people would have all these ideas of like how we should do them and all of this, and I was like no, like spend a lot of time like explaining like why we did certain things, and you know, please be patient. Like, in the future, we hope to have some options, like, for example, people wanted different skin tones to be able to choose from for each doll and I hope that I can do them, but not like right now, because, of course, we have minimum orders that we have to do and like just adds like a lot of complexity to the whole all of it, Are you still?

are you still just a one man?

fan. Yeah, pretty much like I have like an assistant that helps me like especially with social media. I can't respond to all the questions and the comments and all of that, but pretty much it's just me and then I lean on my husband here and there.

So he becomes the worker at some point. Let me ask you this question Do you have any dolls to show?

Yeah, I do. This is the Korean doll.

Yeah, yeah.

Actually, this is the cut out of her.

Yeah, so that was the.

Vietnamese one, oh, and she came for and this one is done. B and is I code the sorry Japanese one? It's adorable oh and you know, like I remember when I was designing them my daughter couldn't even speak at the time and I was designing them on the computer and she would just see the face and she would giggle and laugh just by seeing them on the computer, like not even having a person. And I thought, like that's the reason why I want to make these dolls is to like really spread joy and happiness for people, like to really be like an opposite, like with all the hate that we've seen in the last couple of years.

We just need that in our world to be able to spread joy to everyone.

So yeah, this is a Filipino doll. Her name is Malaya. One is Kamala, the Indian doll.

Hey, beautiful. I love the outfit, so cute.

Yeah, she's one of my favorites. She's just like super blingy and yeah. Yeah, she is Okay as the last one. And this is a Chinese doll.

So cute they are adorable. They are just so cute. So let me ask you where did you get the name from Joey dolls? Where did that come from?

Yeah, so actually my name, oh, sorry my name my daughter's name is Josephine, but we call her Joey and so I figured that she was the inspiration behind all of this, so I named her Joey dolls. But also, as I mentioned before, was that I wanted the doll to be like a playmate for my daughter, like a companion. So the name Joey like I'm actually I grew up in Australia so the name Joey is like a slang. Of course it's a name for like a baby koala, baby kangaroo, but also the slang for like a young child. I was like kind of fitting that you know that I want these dolls to be like a friend, not just like okay doll, but I really wanted them to be seen as a friend that they could have at times of comfort. My youngest daughter right now, like she just started daycare like two days a week and she has been struggling a little bit because she's not even two years old and she can't talk and you know she's like in this new environment but we give her one of the dolls and like when they send us pictures of her at daycare, she's always like holding the doll, like underneath her arm, and I just like, oh, my goodness, like I was able to give that comfort to her, to have something that she's familiar with, that she feels safe with, that she can feel loved that way yeah that's so important too, feeling safe.

You know that's just well. That's really so important. So I'm so glad you mentioned that about what your daughter does with the dolls and how it's really. You know it's probably helping her a lot get through all the changes that are happening for her. You know, being away from you, being in a new environment. So that brings me back to asking you what's been the most rewarding right Experience for you since starting the Joey Dolls and, in terms of impact on you know, the children and their families, what's been the most rewarding for you in that?

Yeah. So because the dolls are still currently like pre-order right now, I haven't like I'm still waiting for the full production, that like they're being shipped over right now I'm eagerly waiting to send that to everyone. Yeah, but I still think like the response online has been really amazing, like being able to like we sold out like $2,200 within 48 hours.

That is so nice, mia, that's beautiful.

Yeah, and just like the response, like people sending me messages, like taking the time to say thank you so much for doing this for my children, for the future generation and even for people that don't have children. They said, oh my gosh, like seeing the dolls brought tears to my eyes because of my unhealed childhood and even for adopted children that didn't have a connection to their heritage, and also parents of adopted children who didn't know how to connect their adopted child to their culture. So like there's so many ways that I think our dolls can help people and having that feedback, like people I've had mixed families where they're not Asian, so I would say things like it was such an eye-opening experience being a parent of an Asian child, like looking for toys or books and it being so, yeah, so eye-opening that it was so difficult to find that representation, like they didn't see that until they had their child, and how they just felt so joyful that they were able to find out like our brand, to be able to give them that tool, to be able to give that to their children.

Yeah, wow, that made me so emotional For a minute. You're talking about that, especially the children who adopted, I think, because it's like you know, you don't. As a parent, you want to make sure that your child feels loved and accepted, and when there's nothing out there that represents that and you can't find anything that represents that, and you're a different race or different culture, I think that that's really really hard. You know. I know we talk a lot about this in the Caucasian family adopting an African-American child. It's the same way, right. What I think is very interesting when I'm having this conversation with you is that I think a lot of people don't understand that there's such a lack of representation in so many different cultures when it comes to information to provide for their children. You know, it's just so. I just don't think we look at it in that sense, you know, until we have children and we try to find something that represents who they are in this world, and then you see the disparity of you know, not being represented, you know, in this world, and so I think what you're doing is just very powerful and I, on so many levels, you know, on so many levels, I'm just so excited to see what are the things that are gonna be happening for you?

Thank you so much. I just wanted to mention also that I couldn't believe that we also had families reach out to us in Asia who said they themselves can't find Asian dolls in Asia and the only dolls out there are like these blonde dolls with white skin. And so, like you said, like it's crazy that like so many are not represented in their own countries.

We had a woman who was on the show about three, maybe two, three years ago, and that was her. She made it her business to make sure that there were African-American dolls, or black dolls, in Africa. There are some parts of Africa that did not. in the stores they could not find black dolls and we're like like we're just like really, I mean, they just couldn't find them and literally, she would have people donate and send them over because they were not selling them. It was just amazing Again, but I just don't think that people understand how important it is to have representation, even in a doll. Absolutely, it's very profound. It's just something that's so needed, because dolls is something that gives children comfort To see themselves represented in. That is just powerful and it's just something that needs to continually happen in this world and you're part of that. So that's a beautiful thing. That's a beautiful thing, thank you.

And then one more thing actually my daughter is when I first came up with the first prototype. So I just had various skin tones for the dolls and, interestingly, when I asked them which ones are your favorite, they would always gravitate to the Filipino and Indian doll, which are the darker dolls. I never had any, I never swayed them in any way to which doll would look better or whatever, but they would always say I love these two dolls. And I just thought it was so interesting that they naturally chose those dolls at a young age because they were introduced early enough that they were valued, valued, right, whereas society what is taught very subliminally that people of darker skin tones are not valued. And I just think that if we can change this narrative, like earlier, for what it would do for a society as a whole? Oh my gosh.

Yes, oh, it would be. It would just be so powerful, you know, Cause it would just allow people just to be who they are, you know, and not feel bad about the way they look, you know, or where they're from. It would just really be a beautiful thing. It really would be, because I and just limit, like you said, just the hatred, and I mean and that was one of the things that started that for you, you know, was seeing how the Asian culture was being represented and treated, you know, during the COVID times and you know, I think at this point in day and age, in our world, nobody should be treated that way. Don't care what you look like, like we're all people. So, but thank you so much for really pursuing that, you know, because you, everybody, can come up with an idea, but, you know, deciding to pursue that is something totally different, and I'm so glad that you persevered and did that.

So, um, oh, thank you so much. I so appreciate it. Thank you, oh, you're so welcome.

So, before we head out, I just wanted to find out from you how do you see Joey Dahls evolving in the future and like, like you, have new projects. I know you said you wanted to actually incorporate more Dahls, but what do you see it becoming in the future for you?

So I really do think that I want to put it back into the community like what they want to see. But what I've like heard and seen from what people have requested so far is that boy Dahls are real like, are in a huge demand that boys don't have this. They need to have that. They deserve to have that like feeling of self-love that they're worthy and that they're represented. Just because we have this concept of that girls only play with Dahls and boys, don't? That's?

not true. You know how many Dahls designers are men? Oh my gosh, so many. That's totally a misconception.

Yeah, so I really hope to be able to do that and then, of course, have more ethnicities and cultures represented and then, of course, like the whole, like there are a lot of mixed children, or even like this concept of, for example, east Asians only come with, like lighter skin. It's not true that you know there's such a variety. So colorism is such an issue that in Asian communities that is not really talked about but really needs to be dismantled. So I really hope that we can celebrate not only the different cultures but also different skin tones and, like I said, the different gender, the different gender, that's right. Yeah, and so there's so much that I could do and I'm excited about, but one step at a time.

One step at a time for this one woman band here. So I know you came into this space not knowing how to do any of this, and so I want to ask you one more question. So what advice would you give other inspiring doll makers or entrepreneurs who want to create toys that celebrate diversity and culture and that's never been an entrepreneur Like. What advice should you give them? Well, a doll entrepreneur, let me say that because you've been an entrepreneur. You're a photographer, so you understand that space.

But creating toys and celebrating diversity, being in that space, yeah, I think really, like, everything comes down to your why, like there's so many times that I wanted to give up, but then I've said, ok, I've got to keep going because there's so many people that will be able to be fulfilled through these dolls and I can bring so much joy to people. And so if you can really solidify that why like? Why you're doing it and have really feel connected to that purpose, I think that everything will flow from there. And of course, yes, it takes a lot of work and perseverance and all of that, but if you really understand and believe in your why, then I think that, no matter what, you'll find your way.

Yeah, yeah. And finding people who will support you too, I think is helpful. You know, groups and organizations and things like that I think are really important, because it will also keep reminding you, not just of your why, but just keep reminding you that it can be done. You know, yes, you see other people doing that, wow. So where can they find these beautiful Joey dolls at?

Yeah, thanks. So you can just jump on joeydollscom that's J-O-E-Y-D-O-L-L-Scom, and then you can also find us on Instagram it's just joeydolls and also Facebook Same Actually, we're just joeydolls everywhere.

Well, thank you, Samantha, so much for being a guest in the doll wall. I'm so excited to see your journey and I hope maybe next year you can come back on the show and talk about where you're at next year, because I'm sure you're going to have so many more dolls and you're just going to be yeah, you're going to need a staff. That's all I'm going to say.

I hope we get there. But yeah, thank you so much. I would love to come back on and I so appreciate this opportunity of speaking with you and sharing our journey and what we're about, so I so appreciate it.

Oh, you're so welcome. Thank you again so much for being on In the Doll World.

Bye now, thank you.

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